The main reason I started The Truth About Shock Collars blog was to share information with potential remote collar users. I want to provide insight that I have gained, share experiences from other trainers and most importantly share experience and opinions from other pet owners who decided to go the route of training with a remote dog training collar.
Because the big picture goal is to rid ourselves of the term and idea of a pain inducing “shock collar” and help people understand that an electronic collar should be used with finesse as a communication device.
The thing about blogging is…most of the words are my own and repeatedly hearing just my voice on the matter gets tiresome so I’ve asked numerous friends who are also professional dog trainers to distribute a simple questioner to their clients so we can gather more feedback on what other dog owners think about the “shock collar”.
Over the coming weeks I’ll be posting responses to those questions and expanding on some of the ideas presented. I hope you’ll join in the conversations. If you’re interested in filling out the questioner just provide me an e-mail address and I’ll be happy to send one your way.
In the meantime, here is one response I’d like to share.
Q: In one sentence please describe how you felt about remote collars BEFORE you started training with them.
A: The only people that use them are police dogs and hunters dogs, it was too harsh of training for what we were asking for our dogs.
The next question on the form is:
Q. In one sentence describe how you feel about remote collars NOW.
If you are curious about the answer…stay tuned. 🙂
*Request this 10 question survey by e-mailing Robin@ThatsMyDog.com
I have been reading everything on this website for hours. The reason is because I have already ordered an e-collar online. (I live in South Africa).
I have 3 dogs. The dad (Caesar) is a Labrador / Golden Retriever cross. The problem is the female (Holly – thoroughbred Golden Retriever), we bought her as a companion & to mate with Caesar, in order to preserve both of their beautiful genetics. They duly mated and we kept Nero from the litter. (Nero is now 10 months old. Then we had Holly spayed). They are BEAUTIFUL dogs – to the point that there are people trying to steal them!!! (This IS South Africa). I Love my dogs like my children. They are my only family left. I have trained each one of them and they are all obedient … except for escaping into the swamp.
We live in a rental property, with a big yard. Problem is, at the bottom of the back-yard, it is part of a bigger swamp beyond. It is fenced to the best of our ability, but it is still a swamp – fencing sinks. The owners of the property will not do anything about further fencing & when we did fence part of it at our own cost, they immediately had their attorney send us a nasty letter. We also cannot get out of our Lease until end January 2013.
Holly and Nero LOVE the swamp. They get out any way they can to get into the swamp and then out on the other side & into the streets of the neighborhood, where they run all over – even busy streets and 2km away at the local mall. They do this 2 or 3 times per day, every day. People are now referring to them as the “neighborhood menace”, even though they don’t do any harm … but yes, I do understand their point of view. There are also vagrants trying to sell them!!
We have tried everything!! Holly is the instigator and when she gets into that “mindset to run” nothing stops her & Nero follows her. I have tried everything that I have learned from Cesar Millan (Dog Whisperer) and his methods do work on all other behaviours … but NOT when it comes to escaping into the swamp.
As a very last resort, I have ordered an e-Collar internationally – delivery expected in the next 2 weeks. I am still not too happy with the idea of using it, due to all the negative comments I have read, especially in South Africa. But then again, these are opinions of people who have not actually seen or used one. I would never, never intentionally harm or hurt any of my dogs, but there seems to be no other solution. It is to be used ONLY to stop them from doing the swamp thing.
We are an older couple, both very responsible, but a bit concerned with new technology. Have I done the right thing in ordering an e-collar???
You certainly have not done anything wrong by purchasing a remote collar. Your intentions are to keep your dogs safe. What you need now is information on how to use the tool properly. Learn the steps to e-collar conditioning and then use that to teach the dogs to stay away from the fence line. Hopefully you can find a trainer in your area to help. If not, contact my office and get my training DVDs to help you.
Thanks Robin. The package arrived by international mail yesterday. I already know the steps and how to use it. The only problem is that we have noticed that the collar / remote does not work every time. (We tried it on ourselves first). It may be defective, which we are trying to figure out.
However, using it on Holly (she has received 2 vibrates only) …. she suddenly seems to have a lot of respect for the remote in our hands, even when the collar is not on her. So, we think that the 2 vibrates that she did receive had a very positive result!! She was the original instigator of the swamp escape.
(Please bear in mind that we are not sure if every press on the remote button is working on the collar or not at that particular moment, as it is erratic).
But now, our pup – son of Holly & Caesar, Nero (age 10 months) – seems to have taken over the lead as instigator in the swamp escape!!! The collar on him (pressing vibrate on the remote) has little or no effect.
Nero does stop – looks around – then continues his journey into the swamp – even with repeated pressing on the remote. Holly then follows him … then they are out, into the swamp and from there into the streets. Twice yesterday and once today (with collar on both days).
Should we now start using shock mode (at a low level) on Nero? We have only been using the “Beep” and “Vibrate” modes.
Hi Mary,
If the collar stimulation is inconsistent you will get inconsistent results. If it is not functioning properly you will need to speak with the manufacturer or the company you purchased from.
You say that you ” know the steps and how to use it” but later you mention that Nero “continues his journey into the swamp”…if this is the case I suspect you are not using it properly and have yet to go through the steps to e-collar condition the dogs. If you just received the collars yesterday and already trying to work off lead you are moving forward way too quickly. All early training should be done ON leash or long line. This will allow you to help the dogs to do the correct behavior rather than continuing on their journey. I feel strongly that you should hire a professional to assist you Or at the very least purchase my dvd to guide you through the collar conditioning steps. Additionally having the dog respectful of the remote in your hand is not really the most desirable outcome. While I understand it alleviates some frustration for you, it is teaching your dog to pay attention when the remote is in your hand…rather than when you speak to the dogs and give them instructions. Your steps are to MAKE CERTAIN the collar is functioning properly and once you are assured of that THEN get solid instruction on how to e-collar condition the dogs BEFORE trying to fix the fence crossing problems. UNTIL the fence crossing problems are fixed you should not allow the dogs off leash to continuing reinforcing that bad habits. If can not locate a professional in your area to guide you I do offer long distance coaching. You will find details here.
I am a big fan of electronic shock collars both for training and in use with underground radio fences. I can say for certain that the underground electric fence has saved my dogs life. I lived in a location with my dogs at one point in life that had a traditional fence. My dogs, two 70+lbs each, managed to run from one side of the yard to the other and leap into the fence, knocking the boards loose. The dogs got loose and were picked up by the dog catcher seven miles away in a golf course pound across two major highways….I am lucky they are alive. When I moved to a new location I changed to an electronic underground fence, followed the training procedures, and never had to worry about the dogs getting out again. Even when the fence was disabled for what ever reasons the dogs never challenged the boundary. The fence was so effective that when I moved to another location I put up the white flags and did the preliminary training…it was a rental so we did not install an underground fence, and there was no fence…the dogs remembered the training and have never challenged the border even though there is not even a fence to correct them. Now on to behavioral corrections using a shock collar…I have taken many dogs in over the years and some are very easy to train and respond very well to positive reinforcement and clicker training…some just do not. I have found that with difficult dogs the shock collar works remarkably well. Also, even with dogs that can be trained traditionally, giving commands at long distances…say over 100 meters can be very difficult for the dog…similar to hand signals the dog can be trained to respond to Haptic feedback. The shock collar, set on the lowest setting, the setting which training should begin at and then return to after proper behavior is achieved, does nothing more than create a little pressure or vibration, almost like if the dog was being tapped where the collar prongs are. This haptic feedback is incredibly effective for giving long distance commands. The dog can respond to the number of beeps followed by haptic feedback. I know that the collar feels this way because I tried it on myself…I would never try something on my animals without knowing what it actually feels like.
True, I am not that big a fan of them but I do know they are much improved over the shock collars of yesterday. Personally I have never had to use them with the dogs I own.
Do you have any suggestions as to which brand of ecollar to purchase? There are so many in a wide range of prices?
Hi Nan,
I am a fan of Dogtra e-collars. There are other very good collars on the market but my personal preference is for their rheostat system of control. It gives me a great amount of finesse without having to invest in a professional grade (higher cost) e-collar. Their 280 NCP for instance is used with about 90% of the dogs we train. Has all the quality features needed for $225.00
When I first read your blog, I was actually looking for ways to disguise an ecollar so my neighbors would not think bad of me. I have a very independent thinking pit bull mix 12 yrs old. I’ve had her since she was 7 mos. We spent over 2 months with a private trainer trying many different methods. This dog is h**l on wheels, but I love her dearly. Our trainer will only recommend this collar on rare occasions for these types of dogs, and then only when she feels the owner is responsible enough to understand it’s usage. My dog is extremely intelligent, please keep that in mind, she knows all commands and consciously chooses which is more appealing, pupperoni, hotdog, or the deer that just went up over the ridge. Yes, I believe with all my heart had I not been using an ecollar to run the mountain, my girl would be gone with that deer. I was also able to get her off of a boy on a bike with his dog that were heading to a busy street to get away from her. Extremely difficult to get her attention, focus, and trust me, after 12 years, I have worked so very, very hard with her. I am offended and hurt to the point of tears when people say these collars are cruel. I’ve tested it on myself, I know what she is getting. I love my dog, I want to walk with her, especially now that she is older. Also for the record, have a chi/beagle mix, submissive, heels beautifully with a harness and hangs on my every word and command who was clicker trained. It’s all in the type of dog, don’t dismiss the tools available, but instead learn the hows and whys they’re appropriate.
I have always felt that shock collar training was wrong. All our puppy’s we have trained were trained using positive methods and then I got a dog who would chase cars, animals, flies, you name it she chases it. I have been scared numerous times that she would be hit by a car or get lost. We live in the country so we would let our dogs have freedom to run with in their boundaries. I Wanted the same thing for my new dog but all the training techniques I would use with her were not working. We bought a shock collar for her with the intention of training her to stay within her boundaries. I don’t look at it as punishing her. I look at it as training her so eventually she can have more freedom to be a dog and most importantly keeping her safe. I understand this form of training can become abusive but I have laid down the rules of whn the collar can be used and when it’s not to be used. I love my dog and the thought of her being hit by a car or running away scares me to death. Also I would hate for her to always be restricted on a leash while on our property. This training I’m hoping will help. If anyone has any tips on how to properly train using the shock collar let me know.
Hi Shanna,
If you look on this blog there are trainers listed. Hopefully, one is in your area. It’s important to know how to do the foundation work with your dog and the collar so your dog sees it as a communication method and not as a punisher. If there isn’t a trainer in your area, then check out Robin MacFarlane’s DVD listed on her website http://www.thatsmydog.com . It’s an excellent DVD.
I totally agree with obin and Emily. It’s a great tool. We have no fence at all around our 3.5 acres and it can be dangerous what with cars, coyotes, etc. With ACD’s and now a Dutch shepherd, our dogs need to run. The e-collar is perfect to utilize with voice command and flags (in the beginning, to deliniate our yard boundaries). It is still a process. In the month I have been training our young DS, I have only had to zap her three times. Usually voice command or the warning tone gets the job done. Sometimes it doesn’t. These are intelligent dogs, and as Robin said, dogs are out to please themselves until taught otherwise. It is not a cruel tool to use. Eventually we hve managed to get all of our older dogs trained to voice command only. It is only the new one we are now training. Great device if used correctly.
When we reached our limit of “tools in the box” and decided to go e-collar I was hesitant. I only knew this device from my father. It was a 30 year old collar that had only two settings. When we went to the store to look at purchasing a collar I knew right away that we needed a professional to show us how to use it because it looked sophisticated and potentially complicated in its use. Now we have been able to give the dogs WAY more freedom that they ever would have been able to have had. They get excited when we reach for the collars because it means they get to go outside and play/ train. In my mind we are going to train, in their mind they are going to play!
We have hunting & trialing beagles. When my beagles hear or see the collars, they become very excited because they associate them with something positive and something they love doing.
When these collars are used as intended, they provide a pleasurable training and hunting session, walk or whatever you and your dog share. It’s nice to have my dogs come when called & listen. I’m sure the collars have saved my dogs lives many times, bringing them back from deer runs,they could be shot, lost, eaten or run over.
I run my 7 dogs about 5 times a week because the dogs and I need to exercise. I have MS & the dogs with the collars on keep me healthy. In the heat, they or I could suffer a heat stroke if they don’t come to load up when I decide we need to go.
We couldn’t run even one of them much at all with out our collars. The collars are a great device, far from cruel, a life saver when used correctly.
People should gather all the information before posting negativity.
Mindy,
I hadn’t even thought about that benefit of the collars. I too have MS, though its only been 8 years since the first relapse and I don’t show a lot of signs but I eventually will so these collars will help me enjoy the dogs for many years to come!
I have to be honest and say that I am not a fan. I consider this not only a cruel training method but a lazy one. Dogs want to please their human. If you want to train your dog, learn the postive reinforcement methods to do this. Fear and pain should never be an option. I have seen so many pet owners start out using these one way and using them out of frustration later. Zapping a dog that is getting on thier nerves. Trainers that recommend these are expecting humans to be more patient and tolerant than they are by nature. The dog pays the price.
Hi Betsy,
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. But perhaps I was not clear that what I’m really interested in however, is opinion from those who have utilized the tool. If I wanted to know what escargot tasted like, I’d like to hear from someone who’s eaten it. 🙂 course then the best way to truly understand is to try it myself and perhaps even best of all would be to try it when prepared and presented by a good cook.
I do have to say I disagree with your statement that dogs want to please their human. It is just not true. Dog’s, like all species, want to please themselves. The trick with training is to understand that and then create situations where the dog learns that pleasing you is what gets him/her what pleases them. That is how we teach dogs to please their humans. It is a training process, left to their own devices, dogs have no innate desire to please us.
Also in regard to your comment: Trainers that recommend these are expecting humans to be more patient and tolerant than they are by nature I’d have to say I “think” trainers should not expect their human clients to be patient and tolerant, but rather teach them how to be by teaching them how to achieve their desired goals with their dog. I have found that when frustration is taken away it is much easier for owners to be patient. Not everyone has the patience of a saint, nor the time to have them…so it is one of the reasons that achieving fairly rapid results has become important to many of today’s dog owners. By the same token IF a dog owner is highly frustrated by a dog “getting on their nerves” and they have a propensity to “take it out on the dog” the reality is they are going to do that one way or the other regardless of tool. 🙁
Our goal as trainers, regardless of method/tool, is to guide the human into understanding how a dog learns and assist them in finding tools and techniques that help them achieve their desired goals in time frames they consider acceptable. For some that is going the all positive reinforcement route, for some it is not. I have also seen dogs “pay the price” of losing their home or being euthanized because it was believed that if all positive did not work then there was no other humane alternative, that is equally as sad as those who misuse a remote collar.
the lazy comment….I’ve gone there enough times so I won’t elaborate much. If you use a phone, a computer, flip a light switch, travel by plane or use any other modern advancement…you’re not lazy. It is likely you believe in efficiency. When those “tools” first came about they were regarded with skepticism by many as well…until they became more understood. A Tool is not bad or good nor does it designate it’s user into a category. Those labels are up to the individual to create by how they use/do anything.
The collar is great! It does not hurt the dog, but it gives off a small almost vibration that lets the dog know when the behaviour is wrong. I love it, there is nothing wrong with this collar.
After initially posting my previous comment, I went a read alot of the April discussion. I want to say, right off, that I am NOT a trainer (as in “not trained to train dogs”). I simply have had a life long experience with dogs and I try to utilize some common sense. The dogs we’ve had for last 20 years are ACD’s. They are very intelligent and can be VERY stubborn n general if bored. Most of our dogs HAD to be trained with either invisible fencing or e-collar to start. This was done in a gradual way. Patience is a MUST with any training. First flags for a few weeks on a lead, no collar. Then, with the collar, still on lead, with warning only. Then with small correction, still on lead, if needed. You see where I am going. This training was for most of our dogs. Their personality dictated how far we needed to go along the line to get the needed result. One that we rescued only needed the flags and some repetitive boundary walking to achieve the goal. He will be 14 this November and has never been shocked. He staysin his yard with verbal command. What I am getting at is this: the first thing that needs to be done is get to know the dog’s personality-Is he more a “fear dog” or an alpha? The type of dog dictates the type of training. At least on my planet.I realize I am out of my depth talking in a forum full of trainers, but, gee whiz, this does not really seem to be rocket science. You use the best tool for the job. You start with the smaller tools (+R) and if that don’t get it, go to the next level. How hard can this be? Our vet is always talking about how happy, but well trained our dogs have been. I work with getting them to accept people looking in their ears, mouth, etc., and play with their feet so that they are more comfortable at the vet. Common Sense. You no e-collar folks need to understand that some breeds have “STUBBORN” as their middle name and need a little extra help coming around to your way of thinking.Treats did not do the trick. Frisbee, while great, did not get desired result. It is not cruel to love your dog enough to do what needs to be done. I have rarely had to shock correct our dogs during training after the initial time or two. Our older dogs haven’t had shocks in years.Again, I am not a trainer, just a dog lover who doesn’t want her dog kicked by a horse, hit by a car, or eaten by a coyote.